Guests: Phil Swan, Ceana Prado Nickel; Topics: Our guests introduced us to The Atlantis Project (www.project-atlantis.com) per their talk at the recent ISDC event. Our discussion was technical, policy oriented, and focused on a way to have affordable, safe, and environmentally sound large scale space access benefits for all humanity. Multiple topics were discussed so I suggest you use the Tags as a type of Table of Contents for subject matter/topics of discussion. The Tags are repeated below for your convenience:
"Tags: Phil Swan, Ceana Prado Nickel, The Atlantis Project, Tethered Ring, electromagnetic launcher, access to space, tethered ring economics, Project Atlantis concept, Pacific Ocean, space infrastructure, the importance of the bridge metaphor, anchored platform, mooring line analogy, materials of choice, steel strings, magnetic lift track, tethered ring engineering is Active Support, strength and engineering specifications, both cargo & human spaceflight, elevators used from Earth to the ring, published White Paper, Project Atlantis videos, funding issues, concept and project marketing, regulatory approval concerns, geopolitical cooperation, global cooperation, equity and fair play in space, climate change as a project driver, environmentally safe space access as a driver, building on earlier technology, global regulatory regime, Technology Readiness Levels (TRL), 10-12 technology subsets, heritage technology, spinning up the ring TRL, ring location above Earth, space fairing nation project support, comparisons to the early internet days, supplemental energy generation, ring safety issues and concerns, lessons form history, spreading the word strategy, stepping stone progress, Phil's idea of success, Ceana's idea of success, multi-generational project, patents to date, concern regarding environmental impact on space launches, why space in the first place."
Our program discussion involved talking about substantial engineering regarding both heritage and new technology. When listening to this program, I urge you to see the videos on the Project Atlantis website (www.project-atlantis.com/videos) plus review the links to additional material which I posted to the blog in my initial comment for this program. By accessing this material, your understanding of the engineering, economics, policy and potential benefits of the project as explained by our guests will be enhanced.
We started the discussion with Phil by asking him about the origin of the Project Atlantis concept. He told us the idea dated back to 2015 when advocating for an economically efficient and environmentally sound way of getting large masses and numbers of people into space. Our guest talked about the need for space infrastructure to facilitate accomplishing the space access he was visualizing. By infrastructure he implied creating a bridge to space on a global basis. You will hear more about space infrastructure from both our guests later in the program. Do pay attention to their infrastructure commentary as infrastructure as they see it provides the backbone to Project Atlantis. Phil came up with the idea of a tethered ring which he described for us in detail. The ring would support an evacuated hollow tube for an electromagnetic launch track, which he also described in detail. He told us how the tethered ring would be maintained about 32 km from the surface of the Earth with carbon fiber tethers attached to anchoring platforms on the Earth's surface. Many of these would be floating ocean-based anchor platforms secured in place with mooring lines. Listen to what he said about the choice of materials and why this particular choice of materials. He told us the engineering of the tethered ring would be based on Active Support which he described for us. Phil then provided us with some examples of engineering projects today based on active support. Our guest spent significant time with us describing the engineering, the actual ring, the mag lift track within the ring, the why behind the Pacific Ocean location, the construction of the ring under the surface of the ocean and then being lifted up to the final destination point above Earth. When asked how cargo and people would get to the ring to get into a spaceship for the destination (note his description of the vehicle, the speed and length it would travel over the mag lift track along with the G force), he said there would be elevators for that purpose. Phil mentioned their White Paper which I linked to on the blog but for convenience, please find it here: www.project-atlantis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Tethered-Ring-White-Paper-3-25-2018-1.pdf.
While there were no listener phone calls during this program we did receive multiple listener email questions and comments. Through discussion and the listener emails, two main drivers for this project emerged from our guest comments. One was to help solve the climate change problem. Our guests spoke to this driver several times during the interview, informing us how this methodology for getting into space would not harm Earth's environment, cause, help or add to climate change problems while at the same time getting lots of people and mass to space for all sorts of beneficial purposes. Ending conventional launch which they pointed out was damaging to Earth's environment was a key driver for the Atlantis Project. Another driver was the economics behind this system as our guests pointed out that what was needed was volume launch to space for the mass and numbers needed to open space up and to grow a spacefaring globally oriented economy.
One question we heard a few times during the interview dealt with time lines from now to completion of the project and the start of operations. As you will hear, our guests could not offer a definitive timeline from start to finish. Project Atlantis, as you will hear, is designed to be a step by step multi-generational project in a very cooperative global geopolitical environment. In fact, toward the end of the program when a listener asked each guest to define success from their perspective, Phil mentioned that given his age, he at least hoped he would see some of the technologies being developed and implemented so in his lifetime he would know that the project was well underway. Several times I commented on the complexity of the project because I saw it as a massive global engineering venture with many components, technologies to be refined and even developed, and the need for nearly total global participation, especially on the policy and regulatory side of things. How do you put a time line on accomplishing such a noble multi-generational project? That said, both guests did tackle and discuss the "meat" behind this multi-generational project, the need for global unity and participation, and the drivers pushing this project forward as the solution to the space access problem without damaging Earth's environment or hurting Earth. With this framework in mind, we picked up a question from Jack in Tucson regarding the needed regulatory approval for this project. Ceana took it on and talked about the geopolitical nature of Project Atlantis and the global cooperation it would command. Later, when our guests were asked for their action plan or perhaps the beginning stages of their marketing plan, our gests talked about an outreach program to bring people to the discussion. This would be done using conference presentations such as their recent ISDC presentation, talk formats like this Space Show program, papers, podcasts and direct invitations to the conversation.
Going back a step, it was listener Linda from Dallas that near the end of the program asked both guests to define success from their own perspective given the long term global nature of Project Atlantis. Phil responded first, then Ceana explained what success with Project Atlantis meant to her. Rather than tell you what each said, listen to their commentary and then post your thoughts on what each said on our blog. Phil and Ceana want your feedback as they said many times over during the interview that feedback was important for them, even critical feedback. So don't be shy, post on the blog as they will see your commentary and the feedback which will be useful for them. As we approached the end of the program, I asked my usual closing questions about adding something not yet talked about or having omitted or something like that. Our guests talked about the environmental impact of space launch, the need for cleaner and more efficient launches for the type of access needed to truly develop the much needed space economy and to develop all the beneficial technologies that would come with the development of Project Atlantis. We even talked about the final completion of the project looking quite different from what was talked about tonight while providing humanity with lots and lots of new tech and innovation along the way that are likely not even known today. This is both an advantage and a benefit of a very long term project development program.
Please post your comments/questions for Phil and Ceana to this blog. You can reach our guests through their Project Atlantis website per above in this summary or through me here at The Space Show.
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