Broadcast 2970 Kim Holder

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Guest:  Kim Holder;  Topics:  Moonwards, why the Moon, Mars, pregnancy, fetal & child development in space and more.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding specific Space Show programs & guest(s) to the Space Show blog which is part of archived program on our website,  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See

We welcomed Kim Holder back to the show for this one segment 90 minute discussion.  I also thank Kim for being a last minute replacement for the original guest scheduled for this program who turned out to be a no show for today.  Thank you Kim for being available at the last minute.

I started the Q&A with Kim by asking her to provide us with more details regarding her interest in space, the Moon, why not Mars, and the start of Moonwards.  Kim went into detail with a fascinating story.  Note the difference being inspired by someone like Elon Musk made because hearing him talk was a significant catalyst to propel her forward and she now contributes to the arena of space ideas, thinking, and development concepts.  Don't miss what Kim had to say about her start, how it happened, why she wanted to make a contribution and a difference.  I think it is something that we can learn from and teach and model, especially with kids in school. 

Listener Jack in Santa Fe, NM asked Kim for her number one top priority goal for Moonwards.  After some thought, Kim said her goal was to complete a fully functioning virtual Moonwards colony online.  She explained this in detail to us and noted that this would be a challenge.  Related to this, I want to add that Kim just booked Monday, Nov. 27th to return as a Space Show guest.  In her email to me, she said "my challenge will be to have a walk-around 3d environment of the colony posted by that time. And also be incorporated with a registered trademark."  I added this to our summary because her plans are consistent with her meeting her goal since after Jack asked his question, I inquired if the goal would be for 2017.  Before we moved on from this discussion, I asked Kim for the current TRL  for Moonwards.  Don't miss what she said in response to this question.

Todd from San Diego asked Kim if she had thought about getting a zip code for her lunar colony location.  The answer was no and I doubt that the US government publishes zip codes for the Moon. This opened up a short conversation about selling property on the Moon and I referenced a show by Virgil Pop from Jan. 29, 2006 in which he featured a book he had written on the history of folks trying to sell the Moon.  The show is Broadcast #452 if you want to listen to it.  The book was excellent, really funny and worth getting and reading.  I believe it was titled "Unreal Estate."  You can find the show at  In addition, this discussion opened up a side discussion about the Moon in our culture and history as compared to Mars.  Kim and I both had much to say on this topic so don't miss our conversation.

Larry in Las Vegas sent in a note asking Kim if her virtual colony would contain a simulated and animated sky such as is used in major Las Vegas hotels along the Strip.  Kim had much to say about this and the Moonwards virtual colony.  Maybe down the road it will happen but do listen to her full comments on the subject.

Bjorn sent in a note asking if Kim thought "that making Earth-like habitats on the Moon could kill the very interest in going to it, if it isn't hard and dangerous?"  Kim had some thoughtful comments for Bjorn so don't miss them. 

Listener Wanda asked a question which exploded into an of the program discussion and a few blog comments from those dismissing what Kim and I talked about.  The subject was pregnancy and bring up babies and children in space. Regarding those posting the blog comments, they won't be the ones sending their pregnant family members to space to give birth to a space baby and then have the baby brought up in space with all the microgravity, radiation and other unknowns for fetal and child development in less than 1g.  They profess sending the pregnant women and kids of others to become part of the grand space settlement experiment.  Why not? It is always easier to get someone else to take the risk for the benefit of Kumbaya, right? Anyway, I read a long email from Wanda calling into question Kim's Mothership idea, instead suggesting that early space settlers need to be accountable and responsible and make sure they cannot get pregnant if they go to space.  Kim has proposed strict Moonwards guidelines but if they don't work, the Mothership idea was to take the pregnant woman off the Moon and back to Earth ASAP.  Adrian from San Diego sent in a few questions about this, challenging Kim's ideas and mine as I was vocal about this subject along with Kim.  He has also posted a graph which we mentioned on the show showing radiation levels.  Policy makers and mission planners do not agree with Adrian and others expressing similar views.  I suggested no kids or pregnancy development would take place in space for decades, maybe longer.  I even suggested it would not happen short of something being developed using Crisper technology or even broader scale gene modification proect.  I do realize that many well-meaning space cadets do not share the cautionary view that Kim and I have on this subject but again, let's see how many not sharing our risk averse view jump on the early space settlement bandwagon to send their pregnant family members, babies, or small kids to space, with all the known risks and more. Will they walk their talk?  What do you think?  Let us know with your comments on the blog.  And yes, I know, the financial costs might prohibit many of these expert risk takers from walking their talk but then maybe by the time all this can happen, we will have a more affordable and viable approach to getting more people to space. One more note on this subject.  While it did not come up on air, I would suggest that those of you interested in this topic do a search for "gravity and fetal development.  Gravity plays a huge role in fetal development including helping to position the fetus for receiving nutrition and for eventual delivery.  How this part of fetal development might be impacted by less than 1g is unknown but certainly adds to the risk of pregnancy and fetal development.  Check it out.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog for this show.  You can reach Kim Holder through Moonwards or me.




Moonwards, returning to the Moon and more

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21 Aug 2017 Kim Holder
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