Broadcast 3459 Dr. Robert Zubrin

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Guest:  Dr. Robert (Bob) Zubrin;  Topics:  Review of his visit with Elon Musk and tour of Boca Chica site, Starship plan & production, Mars plan, NASA Moonand Mars and a lot more.   

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We welcomed back to the show Dr. Robert (Bob) Zubrin for a one segment 100 minute discussion on SpaceX, Mars, returning to the Moon, NASA, rockets, and much more.  Note that there were audio issues with Bob's phone line resulting in less than quality audio for the discussion.  Still, we were able to hear, process, and understand all of what Bob shared with us though we would have preferred a better phone line for the interview.  We apologize for less than quality audio for Dr. Zubrin for this program. 

We started the discussion by my asking Bob about his recent visit with Elon Musk and his tour of the SpaceX Boca Chica site, including Starship, Musk Mars plans and his vision and much more.  Bob spent most of the first half of the program talking about Musk, what he saw at Boca Chica and the Mars plans including Starship production lines, launches and tests, the number and pace at which the rockets will be made, the expected growth in the Boca Chica work force and just how Musk will start getting people to Mars for settlement, not exploration.  During this discussion, many technical issues and plans were talked about, including the methane and O2 fuel and why, even the problems in using Starship to land on the Moon.  Don't mis this most important discussion and analysis from Bob as it was not only comprehensive but interesting, technical at times, and important.

One issue talked about was the rising threat of regulatory concerns including planetary protection rules. Bob said that Elon was very concerned about it and called for those wanting to see humans getting to Mars to speak out in support of going to Mars as planetary protection was as he saw it, a real threat to these plans.  Don't miss all of what Bob had to say on this topic. Note that Bob explained why he has downplayed the planetary protection threat, the cross contamination risks, and more.  While you may disagree with Bob, he has made his reasoning very clear.  Many have already posted on the blog their opposition to Bob's view on planetary protection.  I hope you will continue posting your thoughts on this important subject, be they in support of Musk and Bob or in opposition, thinking there might be risks so we must be careful.  We want to hear from you. 

Another subject that Bob addressed was Musk and his work on life support for both the Mars mission and being on Mars.  Bob said he did not discuss that with Elon nor did he see signs that that was a concern at this time. It seems the concerns are for the hardware and rocket and the mission.  Bob thought that life support would be contracted out to some degree, possibly even to NASA which does this very well.

We talked about the Artemis return to the Moon project.  Bob had much to say about it, especially the Gateway which he did not support despite my reading a listener question asking him to be kind to the Gateway.  Bob went after the Gateway plans in details and said the best way to go to the Moon was to go there without the need for a Gateway. Don't miss his comments. He also advocated private sector lunar landers, possibly by Blue Origin.  One problem he addressed in detail was the challenge of Starship landing on the Moon. Because of its size and blowing up dangerous lunar dust, he said it could not land on the Moon, at least not until there was a settlement there with sturdy landing and launch pads to avoid problems. Dr. Doug called asking for clarification on this as he felt Starship could land on the Moon.  Doug and Bob had a detailed discussion on this and related items so don't miss it. Bob also suggested the best way to use Starship for the Moon but his ideas may not be accepted. Let us know what you think about lunar Starship issues. 

A listener asked Bob about Musk using solar power instead of nuclear.  Bob described the solar plans for Musk in the first part of the show.  Regarding nuclear, he said it had to be developed and carried out  by government because of the U233 needing to be used which was a weapons material. It was not for the private sector to develop.  Bob addressed space nuclear power in detail so don't miss what he said at different times during the interview.  He was also asked about NASA and Kilopower.  He supported their work on it but said it was insufficient power for Mars.  He outlined the type of power requirements needed for Mars, suggesting multiple times the amount of power delivered by Kilopower.  He was also asked about thorium so don't overlook what he said about that source of power, especially for Mars. 

Marshall called later in the show to jab at congress once again, but he added in a discussion about new players in the game, wanted to know if Elon might use the ISS for something other than supply, even using SpaceX rockets to maintain the ISS orbit or put it in a higher longer lasting orbit.  Don't miss Bob's reply to Marshal's comments and questions. 

Listener Stephanie in NY asked Bob about Musk not using international participation in his Mars plans which she thought might run afoul of the chosen direction NASA wants to go with Artemis and future plans.  Bob commented on the international makeup of SpaceX at Boca Chica, plus he talked about the entrepreneurial makeup of space opportunities, not just including SpaceX but global opportunities in a developing international movement for space entrepreneurism.  As an example, he referenced RocketLab which is a New Zealand company. 

Ft. Worth John called to continue the discussion about Starship on the Moon and the lunar dust landing problem.  John and Bob talked lunar landers and Bob made a comment that others need to step and do some of this as SpaceX won't do it all.  John and Bob talked about the difference in Musk wanting to go to Mars and working toward that goal now as compared to NASA saying it wants to go to Mars down the road but being more passive about it.

As we were nearing the end of the show, Bob was asked about suborbital space and the fact that if Musk did get the price down for flights as Bob suggested early in the show, that would be competitive to suborbital and maybe damage the industry.  Bob was not keen on suborbital anything including tourism so don't miss his comments on this subject. 

Tim called from Huntsville on nuclear power again but this more on Kilopower.  Tim and Bob wanted NASA to step up their work on it saying they needed 100 kilowatts or more for Mars.   We moved on to some questions about policy.  One thing Bob said was that government needed to do things in 8-10 years or less.  He contrasted this with Musk and the private actors.  He thought Musk would be sending cargo flights to Mars before NASA was doing anything.  Bob cited some examples to support why he thought that including the time and cost on SLS.  Don't miss his SLS comments going back decades when he first worked on the initial project.  Another listener then asked him about the Mars Base Camp project and going to Deimos instead of Mars.  Dr. Zubrin quickly dismissed both concepts.  Be sure to listen to his reasoning and explanation for why he did not think either was a good way to deal with mars. 

Tony from Los Angles called us to tell us that Bill Gerstenmaier had joined SpaceX.  Bob thought that was a good thing so listen to his explanation why.  Tony and Bob talked about NASA culture, SpaceX culture, SLS and then he mentioned China and other Mars plans.  Tim sent in the last email which I read on air about genetic tracing and why it would not be difficult to determine if a microbe on Mars was native or not.

Before concluding the program, Bob talked about the new Mars City Design Competition announcement @ www.marssociety.org.  Make sure you listen to Bob on this as you may be interested in it or know someone who would like to compete.  Before signing off, Bob mentioned that the 2020 Mars Society Conference would likely be at USC in Los Angeles, probably in October later this year.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog for this show. You can reach Dr. Zubrin through me or his Mars Society website.

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Dr. Zubrin articles & recent Op-Ed comments re going to Mars and more

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11 Feb 2020 Dr. Robert Zubrin
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