Broadcast 3834 Michael Listner, Atty.

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Guest:  Michael Listner;  Topics:  India, international space cooperation, norms, lawfare, Russia and Ukraine, congress passing a budget authorization, Artemis Accords, the ISS future, militarization of space, Eric Berger, NewSpace economic slowdown, FlightAware, stalled space legislation, commercial satellites & Ukraine, NEEP, FAA & SpaceX, FCC litigation with VIASAT and more.

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We welcomed Michael Listner back to the program for a special 1 hour 20 minute per the discussion topics above.  We had a surprise caller to start the show from Delhi, India who follows Michael and called to encourage him in his work.  I have not yet received the caller's email or LinkedIn information but I hope he sends it so The Space Show can be in touch with him.

After the call, Michael went into the Ukraine situation in more detail from the perspective that it would not fare well for international space cooperation and Michael supports that.  We spent a good portion of our discussion talking about norms, rules of the road, international space cooperation, Russia, China, and geopolitical reality.  Don't miss this important discussion as it was key to the entire Space Show program for today.  Michael talked the potential for a Cold War on Steroids, he placed important links to articles about this on our blog so do read them, plus we want to hear from you on these subjects so please post on our blog for this show.

As part of the discussion about Russia and the Ukraine, Michael went back in history what happened with Russia, the Ukraine and related territories in 2014.  As you listen, you will hear me jump in with part of the story going back even further to President Clinton signing the Budapest Memorandum with Ukraine, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union.  Michael, during this segment, went on to say that the order in international space cooperation was deteriorating.  Here, he talked about strategy and tactics.  Michael many times over referred to the recent Russian ASAT demo.  Don't miss what he said about this in the context of Russia's current actions.

Dr. Doug wanted to know if Michael thought the Artemis Accords would survive with international space cooperation.  Michael said it was more like a coalition of principles with its seed in the OST.  Doug then asked Michael if things were OK before Russia's Rogozin started making belligerent and hostile comments starting back when he came on the scene.  Listen to Michael's answer.  Post your comments on this for Dr. Doug on our blog.

I brought up the idea that all of what Michael was talking about and what is going on today might lead to an increase in the militarization of space. Michael explained why he did not like that term, then he provided us with his opinion.  Don't miss it, you might be surprised by what he said.  Michael was asked about Starlink going active over Ukraine, One Web launch in Russia and then Michael mentioned the new Eric Berger Ars Technic article on the true cost of Orion and SLS.  We discussed the article and subject for a few minutes but do read it.  Here is a link to Eric's article:  

Jack's email question was about a possible economic slowdown in NewSpace due to the economy, inflation, interest rate rises and Ukraine/Russia.  Michael was not certain but listen to what he said in response to this question.  I then asked Michael about the legality of the guy tracking Elon's jet flights.  Michael had much to say on this subject and directed us to the website FlightAware as once the plane squawks with the transponder, it is public information.  We also talked about the guy saying he was using the same software to track the Russian elites with their jets and yachts.  I made the comment that he better hope he is not tracked by the Russians for doing that. 

Michael moved on to talk about stalled space legislation in the congress, the continued absence of a budget and an authorization act.  Next, we talked about potential impact re the ULA RD180 engines that come from Ukraine, plus continued BE 4 delays with their impact on ULA.  Michael was asked what he thought of Putin and his nuclear weapons comment.  This led Michael to mention the commercial satellite companies getting imaging info and making sure it got over to Ukraine.  He said that the commercial satellites were not immune to counter attack by Russian ASAT weapons or cyber.

Michael was asked to summarize the show so instead he talked about NEEP and the FCC litigation with VIASAT.  Before concluding the show, Michael had a few words to say about the FAA and SpaceX as to what was going on at Boca Chica with the Starship launch local.  Before ending, Michael told about The Precis, his more than an exceptional newsletter, which you should check out and order at his website,

Please post your comments/questions for Michael on our blog for this show.  You can reach Michael through The Space Show or his website.




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01 Mar 2022 Michael Listner
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